tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post1943996988740492258..comments2024-03-26T01:52:45.563-07:00Comments on Fred's Place: The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam: Second Edition, Quatrain CVIFredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-24784254476048612452017-06-26T14:26:02.028-07:002017-06-26T14:26:02.028-07:00Sharon,
I'm interested in any comments you ha...Sharon,<br /><br />I'm interested in any comments you have after looking at some.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-32044833894508414102017-06-26T14:23:41.688-07:002017-06-26T14:23:41.688-07:00Thanks. I'm going to look up those other tran...Thanks. I'm going to look up those other translations.Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-54668519734130138052017-06-26T13:52:50.213-07:002017-06-26T13:52:50.213-07:00Sharon,
"And then I thought about atheists s...Sharon,<br /><br />"And then I thought about atheists such as Richard Dawkins who declares that all actions and beliefs are genetically predetermined and that humans are without free will.<br /><br />Of course my question to him is, were you genetically predetermined to make that statement?"<br /><br /> <br />Chuckle . . .that's one of the pitfalls or traps of making widespread universal statements like that. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-46887287098741237552017-06-26T13:49:32.259-07:002017-06-26T13:49:32.259-07:00Sharon,
Below is the address of a site which has ...Sharon,<br /><br />Below is the address of a site which has a number of translations of the Rubaiyat, including FitzGerald's.<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/ybxlj7x5Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-51777766750204822322017-06-26T12:23:13.815-07:002017-06-26T12:23:13.815-07:00Hi Fred. After writing my comment I realized that...Hi Fred. After writing my comment I realized that Islam is all about "Inshallah" or God's will. I remember that was a frequent assertion in Arabian Nights (I read Richard Burton's translation). Whatever happens is Inshallah, which sounds rather fatalistic. But maybe it's just an affirmation of the belief that God is always in control regardless of circumstances.<br /><br />And then I thought about atheists such as Richard Dawkins who declares that all actions and beliefs are genetically predetermined and that humans are without free will.<br /><br />Of course my question to him is, were you genetically predetermined to make that statement? Oh what a can of worms we open....talking about myself, not you. You just asked an innocent question. :)<br /><br />That is an intriguing question you pose that deserves exploration. How much is Fitzgerald imposing his own beliefs on Khayyam? I suppose there are other translations?..Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-51539026586113603012017-06-26T11:07:45.656-07:002017-06-26T11:07:45.656-07:00Sharon,
I think Fate, destiny, karma, whatever,...Sharon, <br /><br /><br />I think Fate, destiny, karma, whatever, is one of those perennial questions that have plagued humanity since Day One, and since it's been around so long without a satisfactory answer (one that satisfies all), I doubt there will be one. <br /><br />Just how much of FitzGerald's version of the Rubaiyat is Khayyam and how much is FitzGerald has been a matter of debate for a long time. <br /><br />I have a vague recollection of one statement in the Koran that hinted at predestination, but I won't swear to it. <br /><br />Yes, in the theology classes I took at a Catholic university one of the prime issues was free will and God's knowledge of the future, or rather, being outside of time, the past, present, and future were all one to God. I never did understand that. I think the RC position was that we were free, or relatively free, to make a choice even though God knew what we were going to choose. God's knowledge did not impinge on our freedom to make a choice. <br />Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-73091224029352300862017-06-26T10:57:26.813-07:002017-06-26T10:57:26.813-07:00Mudpuddle,
Those who are not content with what th...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Those who are not content with what they have will never be content. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-42534336082503762132017-06-23T12:01:47.101-07:002017-06-23T12:01:47.101-07:00Fate is an interesting concept. In Hindu it is &q...Fate is an interesting concept. In Hindu it is "Karma" and master over all actions and events, yet one is reborn into a life form depending on one's actions during the present life.<br /><br />In Ancient Chinese and Japanese beliefs, the stars must be mapped out and our actions determined by "lucky" or "unlucky" days, numbers, Feng Shui etc..<br /><br />In Christianity, predestination is often confused with fate. It is not fate because man has free will. The question has been raised, "how can God be omnipotent if man has free will?"<br /><br />The answer is that God's power is absolute but man's free will is limited. It is exercised inside the boundaries ordained by Him. Rather like letting your children do whatever they want in the back yard but they may not climb the fence.<br /><br />I also look at it like a chess game (this idea came to me when I played a superior chess strategist): I can move my pieces however I like, but the Master Chess player is always going to win.<br /><br />In the Bible, predestination means that before time began, God knew His children. Of course there is quite a bit debate on that topic inside Christian circles...<br /><br />Your observations of Fitzgerald are very interesting. I would like to study him more and see what his personal beliefs were. Omar Kayyam was Muslim and I should study their idea of fate as well. I read the Koran but I don't recall anything there.Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-65062154722619104852017-06-22T20:26:48.643-07:002017-06-22T20:26:48.643-07:00on this flower-strewn day
the shape of every bee
i...on this flower-strewn day<br />the shape of every bee<br />is perfect<br /> -mudpuddleMudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-75368091178498908932017-06-22T17:15:52.086-07:002017-06-22T17:15:52.086-07:00Mudpuddle,
Yes, some like Omar talk about the dei...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Yes, some like Omar talk about the deity being inscrutable while others write books explaining the nature of the deity, and exactly just what that inscrutable deity wants. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-67723022481987636012017-06-22T11:16:32.515-07:002017-06-22T11:16:32.515-07:00a mystery hidden inside an enigma, as someone said...a mystery hidden inside an enigma, as someone said... Omar's approach seems as apropos as any...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-51075215360322277232017-06-22T07:27:12.362-07:002017-06-22T07:27:12.362-07:00Tim,
I've never really made anything approach...Tim,<br /><br />I've never really made anything approaching a thorough study of Fate, so I'm going on what little I know. It appears to me that the Fate either woven into a tapestry or that inscribed in the Roll of Fate are similar. It is beyond our control:<br /><br />Quatrain 49:<br /><br />'Tis all a Chequer-board of Nights and Days<br />Where Destiny with Men for Pieces plays:<br /> Hither and thither moves, and mates, and slays.<br />And one by one back in the Closet lays.<br /><br /><br />Quatrain 50<br /><br />The Ball no Question makes of Ayes and Noes,<br />But Right or Left, as strikes the Player goes:<br /> And He that toss'd Thee down into the Field,<br />He knows about it all--HE knows!<br /><br />God? Allah? The Three Fates? Destiny? Something else? <br /><br />Take your pick. <br />Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-4419390151832528682017-06-22T07:04:55.028-07:002017-06-22T07:04:55.028-07:00I am puzzled by Fate in this context. Are the Gree...I am puzzled by Fate in this context. Are the Greek Fates analogous to the Recorder or Writer? I guess I am handicapped by insufficient context: not familiar with the whole, so I cannot sensibly comment upon the parts. Still, I'm puzzled. RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.com