tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post2069591219535727078..comments2024-03-26T01:52:45.563-07:00Comments on Fred's Place: Basho: autumn haiku translations Fredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-6888724511746891642017-01-18T10:22:39.697-07:002017-01-18T10:22:39.697-07:00Anonymous,
Yes, and the more I read them, the gre...Anonymous,<br /><br />Yes, and the more I read them, the greater the differences appear to be. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-66455286618711395212017-01-18T10:03:52.979-07:002017-01-18T10:03:52.979-07:00Fascinating. The differences are so subtle and so ...Fascinating. The differences are so subtle and so enormous. <br /><br />Met a woman in a writing class who wrote a haiku a day as a way to get started in her writing - with I could contact her with these! Always was amazed at her ability...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-39501632309159415832016-12-12T14:17:41.171-07:002016-12-12T14:17:41.171-07:00Mudpuddle,
Thanks for posting your haiku. I like...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Thanks for posting your haiku. I like the first one--the contrast between the silent wild ones and the noisy domesticated ones. Significant?<br /><br />Interesting interactions between human and the natural world in the second and third haiku.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-42085518828944254112016-12-11T12:33:04.394-07:002016-12-11T12:33:04.394-07:00sure, although i don't by any means think it&#...sure, although i don't by any means think it's my best effort; i really don't know why or how i won that contest; the only thing i can think is it must be better in Japanese than in English...<br /><br />A silent herd of elk<br />Crossing the snowy pasture -<br />Distant sound of cows<br /><br />here's a couple that i think are a lot better:<br /><br />How kind these trees are!<br />Not growing branches<br />Where i choose to walk<br /><br />Crow, walking,<br />Looks for breakfast -<br />Jogger kicks a nut...<br /><br />some of mine degrade somewhat into Senryu, but that's okay i like them anyway, well, some of them...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-68350765867581303252016-12-11T08:16:42.526-07:002016-12-11T08:16:42.526-07:00Mudpuddle,
Sorry, I meant could you post your awa...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Sorry, I meant could you post your award-winning haiku here?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-84731672847587288622016-12-10T16:25:47.266-07:002016-12-10T16:25:47.266-07:00not unless i could take a photo and somehow get it...not unless i could take a photo and somehow get it into a comment; i've tried that before unsuccessfully... i'm not a technophobe but my skill level is next to the bottom...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-26952676793659107902016-12-10T12:05:41.522-07:002016-12-10T12:05:41.522-07:00Mudpuddle,
Congratulations on the award. Could y...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Congratulations on the award. Could you post it here?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-46132425373080987832016-12-10T12:03:04.444-07:002016-12-10T12:03:04.444-07:00Mudpuddle,
I know--just joking. The version I qu...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />I know--just joking. The version I quoted came from _The Sound of Water_, translated by Sam Hamill.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-400643837943966372016-12-10T12:01:55.288-07:002016-12-10T12:01:55.288-07:00Stephen: the six works by Blyth are what led me i...Stephen: the six works by Blyth are what led me into Haiku and Zen; by now i have quite a collection of associated texts. finally i ended up by winning a Haiku contest thrown by a Zen monastery in Japan; they sent me a nice Zennish purse thing and a document with the emperor's seal on it that is in Kanji so i'm not sure what it means, but i assume it's something about Haiku... i like it...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-86868091348419130702016-12-10T11:53:13.527-07:002016-12-10T11:53:13.527-07:00Fred: same Haiku, different translation - the Eng...Fred: same Haiku, different translation - the Englished version in Japanese is the one cited above.Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-42531412595104661972016-12-10T09:06:08.870-07:002016-12-10T09:06:08.870-07:00Stephen,
Thanks for the two translations.
The t...Stephen,<br /><br />Thanks for the two translations. <br /><br />The translators' choices for the verbs give each version a slightly different flavor. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-41690352029708519832016-12-10T08:45:48.577-07:002016-12-10T08:45:48.577-07:00Mudpuddle,
No, I mean this one. . .
At the anc...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />No, I mean this one. . .<br /><br />At the ancient pond<br /> a frog plunges into<br /> the sound of water<br /><br />Such subtle differences, even though the overall meaning is the same.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-17059542732389529232016-12-09T14:09:02.597-07:002016-12-09T14:09:02.597-07:00do your mean:
furuikeya
kawazu tobi komo
mizu no ...do your mean:<br /><br />furuikeya<br />kawazu tobi komo<br />mizu no oto<br /> <br />trans.: the frog jumps into the old pond; SPLASH!Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-13642531758069644172016-12-09T11:57:50.912-07:002016-12-09T11:57:50.912-07:00Fred: Thank you for sharing these. As you and I ...Fred: Thank you for sharing these. As you and I have discussed in the past, these sorts of comparisons help us to get at the essence of the original, don't they? In that spirit, I offer two additional versions:<br /><br />As you know, I greatly admire the haiku translations of R. H. Blyth, whose 4-volume Haiku and 2-volume A History of Haiku are (in my humble opinion) essential reading. Here is his translation:<br /><br />Autumn evening;<br />A crow perched<br />On a withered bough.<br /><br />Blyth includes this footnote: "'Perched' is of course the past participle."<br /><br />Here is a translation by Robert Hass (from his The Essential Haiku: Versions of Bashō, Buson, and Issa):<br /><br />A crow<br />has settled on a bare branch --<br />autumn evening.<br /><br />Regarding your comment that your favorite translation "is the only choice without a verb": the Japanese verb used by Bashō is "tomaru," which means "to stop, rest, alight, or perch." It is interesting to see how the different translators render this verb.Stephen Pentzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-57693146701859643592016-12-08T15:10:20.130-07:002016-12-08T15:10:20.130-07:00Mudpuddle,
I see you prefer the same one I do. Th...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />I see you prefer the same one I do. That's interesting.<br /><br />Buson's haiku is a play on Basho's most famous haiku, isn't it? I use the verb "play" deliberately as I seem to sense that haiku do have an aura of play about them.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-23120561902140063722016-12-08T15:05:06.581-07:002016-12-08T15:05:06.581-07:00mademevauquer,
Yes, "remain" does give ...mademevauquer,<br /><br />Yes, "remain" does give a sense of a greater length of time than do the others. <br /><br />I just realized my choice is the only choice without a verb. The crow isn't doing anything: it is just there with the branch in the autumn evening--part of the whole.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-14248218219927397752016-12-08T14:59:10.035-07:002016-12-08T14:59:10.035-07:00R.T.,
Interesting choice. It's also the only...R.T.,<br /><br />Interesting choice. It's also the only one that translates the haiku using the plural, rather than the singular as do all the others. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-44522323721303227772016-12-08T14:05:38.777-07:002016-12-08T14:05:38.777-07:00translation, particularly from oriental languages,...translation, particularly from oriental languages, is very difficult; from my reading, Haiku should, ideally, eschew any emotionally loaded words or any personal references; simply telling what is... in line with that idea, my preference is #2, "solitary"... i might add(blushingly) without intending to brag, that i won a Haiku contest once thrown by some Japanese Monastery which i now can't remember the name of... here's another i like, with indications of my place of residence:<br /><br />At that pond<br />the frog is growing old now-<br />among fallen leaves <br /><br />BusonMudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-74484696468536258612016-12-08T13:57:57.392-07:002016-12-08T13:57:57.392-07:00I like the differences for the future of the bird....I like the differences for the future of the bird. The third one is my favorite in that regard. "Remain" makes it sound like the crows are hanging in there to wait out the winter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-22298703077596849302016-12-08T13:38:16.313-07:002016-12-08T13:38:16.313-07:00I prefer the third. The universal presence, promis...I prefer the third. The universal presence, promise, and acceptance of death dominate without being morbid.RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-17790405935588800202016-12-08T13:26:26.838-07:002016-12-08T13:26:26.838-07:00R.T.,
Duly noted. R.T.,<br /><br />Duly noted. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-17514009476387213022016-12-08T12:30:15.538-07:002016-12-08T12:30:15.538-07:00I will wait to choose one as favorite, pondering e...I will wait to choose one as favorite, pondering each word's worth for a while. Yes, words, words, words matter. <br />Note: one pun and one literary allusion as my gift in response to your gift.<br />RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.com