tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post4385696277594124269..comments2024-03-26T01:52:45.563-07:00Comments on Fred's Place: The Rubaiyat: Second Edition, Quatrain LXIVFredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-69671295819654125102016-04-09T07:34:58.563-07:002016-04-09T07:34:58.563-07:00Shadow Flutter,
Perhaps that's why FitzGerald...Shadow Flutter,<br /><br />Perhaps that's why FitzGerald made the change: it is more direct and a clearer expression of the hope of a bodily resurrection at The End of All Days. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-59762507359119149072016-04-09T07:29:30.487-07:002016-04-09T07:29:30.487-07:00Mudpuddle,
I've read translations by both Bur...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />I've read translations by both Burton and Waley (Waley was the first one I read when I first got interested in Asian literature and philosophy) and enjoyed them. <br /><br />I'm slightly familiar with Keene's work. I read a book by him on Japanese literature (title escapes me), and my posts on Kenko's _Essays in Idleness_ come from his translation of Kenko's book. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-86712841378246705902016-04-09T05:57:35.604-07:002016-04-09T05:57:35.604-07:00I like the second version better. The partial lin...I like the second version better. The partial line "to fill the cup" is emphatic and active. "When the frail Cup is crumbled into Dust" is passive and lacks immediacy. That's what I came away with.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05353532874773316117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-69516163750529876162016-04-08T21:29:01.592-07:002016-04-08T21:29:01.592-07:00he's got a pretty good reputation, from the li...he's got a pretty good reputation, from the little i've read about him. i have to say i like arthur waley's translations. he studied the chinese culture so intensely and i feel like i'm reading poems in the original when i read his efforts; not to say there aren't lots of interesting versions out there. burton watson is good, also, i think... donald keene worked mostly with japanese literature, but i've enjoyed some of his work...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-60121244658971330262016-04-07T08:30:59.408-07:002016-04-07T08:30:59.408-07:00Mudpuddle,
I find it interesting and helpful to r...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />I find it interesting and helpful to read several translations of the same work. <br /><br />I've read and liked a number of poems translated by Red Pine (Bill Porter). The poems by Cold Mountain that I've posted on have all been translated by Red Pine.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-15180433580050904142016-04-06T11:33:41.140-07:002016-04-06T11:33:41.140-07:00chinese and japanese poetry, what we know of it, i...chinese and japanese poetry, what we know of it, is mostly translated into english; taoist ideas still seem to me to come across in spite of the translations even though alternate versions may differ quite a bit. ezra pound made some well known efforts which were denounced by some of the more interested parties, but they still can offer a sense of the original. i like Waley and Burton, but there are many other translators...<br /> these are thoughts off the top of my head, hence no referential material; i could look some up if it's required...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-74828103086254659232016-04-06T08:58:39.166-07:002016-04-06T08:58:39.166-07:00R.T.,
I'm not sure why in many cases. Someti...R.T.,<br /><br />I'm not sure why in many cases. Sometimes it seems to clarify the originial version, while in others, the original idea is modified, perhaps because he has rethought it or perhaps he thinks the change more closely represents the poet's thought. Sometimes it just may be that he thought it was a better or more poetic way of expressing it, although a number of changes appeared to be more literal and less poetic.<br /><br />I have been unable to locate any information regarding why he made the changes that he did, so I have to guess.<br /><br />Frost was asked the usual question poets get: what is poetry? Frost once responded that poetry is what gets lost in translation. <br /><br />Frost appears here to agree with you, but what am I to do? A translation is still better than nothing--and several different translations may be a little bit better.<br /><br />Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-72821192689318824082016-04-06T06:45:23.191-07:002016-04-06T06:45:23.191-07:00Fred, let me ask a simple-minded question: What is...Fred, let me ask a simple-minded question: What is Fitzgerald's motivation for the changes that so often happen and you spotlight in his translations?<br /><br />Your series of postings reminds me of why I have been so ill-at-ease about translations of poetry; prose translations are difficult enough, but poetry translations are very problematic since meters and sounds often cannot be translated from one language to another. For example, the beautiful sounds of Dante in Italian never make it into English translations.RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.com