tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post5568825219318127184..comments2024-03-26T01:52:45.563-07:00Comments on Fred's Place: A Vietnamese Poem: The Cherished DaughterFredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-54026148908739379602017-01-04T10:16:46.101-07:002017-01-04T10:16:46.101-07:00Di,
Agreed, reading a work in its original langua...Di,<br /><br />Agreed, reading a work in its original language is best. But, I never had decent language skills, so it's a translation or nothing. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-57636335171594979762017-01-03T17:09:58.048-07:002017-01-03T17:09:58.048-07:00Yeah, I do like to read the original.
Yeah, I do like to read the original. <br />Hai Di Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230670162621139739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-79104694372614814292017-01-03T10:05:35.763-07:002017-01-03T10:05:35.763-07:00Di,
The local library doesn't have it, so I w...Di,<br /><br />The local library doesn't have it, so I will add it to my InterLibraryLoan search list. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-35263037649316282252017-01-03T09:58:17.635-07:002017-01-03T09:58:17.635-07:00Di,
I wonder if there were other choices the tran...Di,<br /><br />I wonder if there were other choices the translator could have made instead of "challenge." <br /><br />Yes, either way or perhaps a bit of both? Mixed motives are not uncommon in human behavior.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-77393511557687856912017-01-02T15:29:35.109-07:002017-01-02T15:29:35.109-07:00I haven't read him. But I'm very intereste...I haven't read him. But I'm very interested at the moment, because <i>Life and Fate</i>, translated into English in the 1980s, has now been recognised as a classic and is often called the <i>War and Peace</i> of the 20th century. Many reviews I've read, and the praises from critics such as Joseph Epstein or bloggers I trust like Himadri, or Patrick Kurp at Anecdotal Evidence, make me think I'll like Vasily Grossman. You can google the title and check out some reviews. Hai Di Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230670162621139739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-27795906413974309362017-01-02T15:26:03.690-07:002017-01-02T15:26:03.690-07:00As far as I know, at the time it's a thing to ...As far as I know, at the time it's a thing to have such "challenge" (there should be a better word for it, but I can't think of it right now), to demand a price for one's daughter, because to give her away for free would mean something like she's not desirable in some way. <br />Earlier you had 2 interpretations. I suppose it could work either way. Hai Di Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230670162621139739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-57679162168100235342016-12-31T07:54:15.436-07:002016-12-31T07:54:15.436-07:00Di,
No. Somebody you would recommend? Any parti...Di,<br /><br />No. Somebody you would recommend? Any particular work?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-48462580958526643372016-12-31T07:50:11.631-07:002016-12-31T07:50:11.631-07:00Di,
The following is from the acknowledgement pag...Di,<br /><br />The following is from the acknowledgement page:<br /><br />"Anonymous, 'The Cherished Daughter,' translated by Nguyen Ngoc Bich from _Translation Magazine II (1974)_. Reprinted with the permission of Translation Magazine." <br /><br />Yes, "you threw them the challenge" is aggressive wording, almost as if she is daring them to make an offer. Is there a matchmaker or go-between in this situation?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-61898279476275007032016-12-30T15:03:32.056-07:002016-12-30T15:03:32.056-07:00Unrelated: I notice that you've just read Solz...Unrelated: I notice that you've just read Solzhenitsyn recently. Have you read Vasily Grossman? Hai Di Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230670162621139739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-44008985438698508692016-12-30T15:01:37.910-07:002016-12-30T15:01:37.910-07:00Heya.
I guess you don't happen to have the or...Heya. <br />I guess you don't happen to have the original title? It's rather weird to read a Vietnamese poem in English, especially one written in 1700. <br />Agree with your interpretation. I think the key is in "you threw them the challenge...". Hai Di Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230670162621139739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-36043768398165324382016-12-28T12:03:14.909-07:002016-12-28T12:03:14.909-07:00R.T.,
I have often thought about the problems of ...R.T.,<br /><br />I have often thought about the problems of poetry in translation, remembering Frost's famous response to the question: What is poetry? He said it was what got lost in translation.<br /><br />However, as I am not a linguist, it is either read the translations or deny myself the opportunity to get some idea of poetry in other cultures and languages. <br />Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-13678188927775914942016-12-28T11:57:17.734-07:002016-12-28T11:57:17.734-07:00Fred, I have a confession: I am almost always wary...Fred, I have a confession: I am almost always wary of World Poetry in translation. Your Rubaiyat project serves as an example of translation challenges. Consider what Emily Dickinson's poetry must be like in translation to languages other than English! Just as her poems could hardly ever be translated effectively, many poems being translated from other languages into English run into similar effectiveness problems. The sights-and-sounds of words (in the original language) are often damaged and lost in translation. Here is another example: once upon a time, long ago, I was somewhat good at Latin; The Aeneid in English is a far, far different poem than the one in Latin. But all of this might just be my peculiar aversion to poetry in translation.RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-65433488541437341272016-12-28T11:51:02.937-07:002016-12-28T11:51:02.937-07:00Brian Joseph,
That is what strikes me so forceful...Brian Joseph,<br /><br />That is what strikes me so forcefully as I dip into poetry from around the world--the similarity of themes, once divested of cultural elements.<br /><br />The book this poem comes from is _World Poetry_, and it is world poetry going back to B.C. and not limited to European authors and works. If you're interested in the subject, it's a good starter. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-4211242427508176062016-12-28T11:43:44.729-07:002016-12-28T11:43:44.729-07:00Mudpuddle,
Yes, there is humor, along with perhap...Mudpuddle,<br /><br />Yes, there is humor, along with perhaps desperation?<br /><br />I haven't read any of the works you mentioned, but I have heard of Ralph Roister Doister--how could one forget a title such as that. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-83052288338916820792016-12-28T11:35:21.222-07:002016-12-28T11:35:21.222-07:00R.T.,
Di occasionally stops by here, so I'm l...R.T.,<br /><br />Di occasionally stops by here, so I'm looking forward to whatever comments she may choose to make. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-12121126112645946072016-12-28T11:18:00.411-07:002016-12-28T11:18:00.411-07:00Fred, as poetry, the poem's "meaning"...Fred, as poetry, the poem's "meaning" eludes me. There is an emotional quality, but I suspect "meaning" is bound up in the culture. Perhaps Di at The Little White Attic can help sort out this poem; she is from Vietnam but now lives in Europe, and here is her blogging address:<br />http://thelittlewhiteattic.blogspot.com/<br />RTDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113953356514605424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-51524537394448892542016-12-28T09:33:29.605-07:002016-12-28T09:33:29.605-07:00madamevauquer,
Yes,I agree; the title certainly d...madamevauquer,<br /><br />Yes,I agree; the title certainly does seem ironic. My lack of cultural knowledge handicaps me here. It seems as though the mother is setting the bridal price too high. The question is whether she's doing that deliberately to selfishly keep the daughter around or that she's honestly overvaluing the daughter's value in the marriage market place. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-65818912583027511482016-12-28T03:34:42.139-07:002016-12-28T03:34:42.139-07:00Though Vietnamese culture is also somewhat unknown...Though Vietnamese culture is also somewhat unknown to me, the fact that this is strait forward makes it easier. <br /><br />I agree, there seems to be irony in the title. Despite some cultural divide, It is striking at just how similar people are all over the world. Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139559400312336791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-48092329131168168302016-12-27T21:22:13.544-07:002016-12-27T21:22:13.544-07:00a worldly-wise sense of humor, there... there'...a worldly-wise sense of humor, there... there's a similar theme in some european folk lore i remember reading somewhere; the early Elizabethans had a similar sense of humor, i think... Ralph Roister Doister, for one; maybe Gramma Gurton's Needle...Mudpuddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17194891656971454279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-8091210256190800652016-12-27T14:28:02.606-07:002016-12-27T14:28:02.606-07:00I don't know anything about Vietnamese culture...I don't know anything about Vietnamese culture either, Fred. Reading it from my particular point of view, I see the title as more ironic. Why doesn't the mother allow her daughter to marry? From my particular point of view, the mother is being selfish and wants someone around to do the work and keep her company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com