tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post6594046880283577102..comments2024-03-26T01:52:45.563-07:00Comments on Fred's Place: The Fight Club--who is the real opponent? Pt. 1Fredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-70699853343075578952008-07-25T08:30:00.000-07:002008-07-25T08:30:00.000-07:00Cheryl, I'm not sure that it's any easier or harde...Cheryl,<BR/> <BR/>I'm not sure that it's any easier or harder to start a fight today than it was back in the 50's.<BR/><BR/>One point that has struck me is that military basic training spends considerable time getting the recruits to the point where they will kill someone, even in wartime. There's considerable propaganda about the evil nature of the enemy and the use of pejorative terms--gook, slant eyes, rag heads, etc.--which dehumanize the enemy. <BR/><BR/>Anti-war stories and poems generally point out that getting to know the enemy tends to make it more difficult to kill, unless under direct attack. It is a crime in most military organizations to "fraternize with the enemy."<BR/><BR/>Thomas Hardy wrote a poem about this issue.<BR/> <BR/>The Man He Killed<BR/><BR/> "Had he and I but met<BR/> By some old ancient inn,<BR/>We should have sat us down to wet<BR/> Right many a nipperkin!<BR/><BR/> "But ranged as infantry,<BR/> And staring face to face,<BR/>I shot at him as he at me,<BR/> And killed him in his place.<BR/><BR/> "I shot him dead because--<BR/> Because he was my foe,<BR/>Just so: my foe of course he was;<BR/> That's clear enough; although<BR/><BR/> "He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,<BR/> Off-hand like--just as I--<BR/>Was out of work--had sold his traps-<BR/> No other reason why.<BR/><BR/> "Yes; quaint and curious war is!<BR/> You shoot a fellow down<BR/>You'd treat if met where any bar is,<BR/> Or help to half-a-crown."<BR/><BR/><BR/>This would suggest that there is reluctance in most men to hurt or kill someone.<BR/><BR/>The scenes in the film, initially anyway, were set inside bars or outside in the parking lot. (There was a country-and-western dance place several blocks away from where I live, and it was common to see a fight in the parking lot every Friday and Saturday night.)<BR/>Alcohol played a significant role in those situations.<BR/><BR/>I had just seen a war film set during the Vietnamese war. The first part of the film was set in a Marine boot camp. The training shown in the film was remarkably similar to that in the boot camp. <BR/><BR/>I think that normally most people try to avoid hurting others, which is why it was so hard to simply go out and get in a fight with a stranger. But, in situations of high stress or because of the consumption of alcohol, violence is much more likely to occur. <BR/><BR/>My speculations anyway.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-46918655882185239872008-07-25T05:00:00.000-07:002008-07-25T05:00:00.000-07:00One thing that got me thinking was the part in the...One thing that got me thinking was the part in the movie where the "homework assignment" was to pick a fight with a stranger. The main character said how difficult it was to start a fight. I was wondering if that's true today, and if it'd have been easier to start a fight in the 1050"s? Have men changed alot in how they relate to each other?Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06230080663569692798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-44250065479824179732008-07-24T19:59:00.000-07:002008-07-24T19:59:00.000-07:00Cheryl,Interesting speculation. I too would like t...Cheryl,<BR/><BR/>Interesting speculation. I too would like to hear some males and females jump in here and comment.<BR/><BR/>I'm not so sure I can accept a Jungian interpretation here, but I do think you are right about tapping into a source of anger and frustration in many men. <BR/><BR/>The baby boomers and post-boomers have experienced as much social change as any other generation in this country, and I wouldn't argue too strongly against the contention that they experienced more change than any other generation. <BR/><BR/>Prior to the 50s and early 60s, the division of labor and behavior was fairly clear--there was men's work and there was women's work. There were things men could and could not do, and there were things women could and could not do. <BR/> <BR/>During the late 60s and early 70s, that all began to change. Women's options multiplied and many males who defined themselves as males by the things they did now find standing next to them. <BR/><BR/>If a woman could do man's work and that work was how some men defined themselves, then what does it mean to be a man? <BR/><BR/>Well, there's one form of behavior that many agree appears to be more often found in males than in females--violent behavior. That's what the Fight Club did for those males, but not for all males either, you will notice. It seemed as though the Fight Clubs attracted primarily males in low level positions, or in positions where they couldn't fight back without losing their jobs. It gave them an opportunity to strike back at someone.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-67450556900328288102008-07-24T19:41:00.000-07:002008-07-24T19:41:00.000-07:00Scott,Chuckle...Just had to get that in, didn't yo...Scott,<BR/><BR/>Chuckle...Just had to get that in, didn't you?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-5559124498908113222008-07-24T16:22:00.000-07:002008-07-24T16:22:00.000-07:00As a woman, this movie was difficult for me to wat...As a woman, this movie was difficult for me to watch. I'd be curious to hear the opinions of guys who say it. I could be totally wrong, but to me Tyler Durden was the suppressed male side of the main character. Men of the post- baby boom generation ( the movie implies) have embraced their female side so much that they've forgotten what it is to be a man. With the main character, once the "primal male" is set loose he then goes too far in the other direction. Or am I seeing it all wrong?Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06230080663569692798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-897228097627164771.post-70100801595629239412008-07-24T15:26:00.000-07:002008-07-24T15:26:00.000-07:00I am Jack's blog comment.I am Jack's blog comment.Scott Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15503780797389981719noreply@blogger.com