Welcome. What you will find here will be my random thoughts and reactions to various books I have read, films I have watched, and music I have listened to. In addition I may (or may not as the spirit moves me) comment about the fantasy world we call reality, which is far stranger than fiction.
Thursday, September 15, 2016
A Minute Meditation: a paradox or a contradiction or. . .?
August 6
All theories are completely false.
-- Chuang Tzu --
from Taoist Wisdom: Daily Teachings
It seems to me that Chuang Tzu is simply making an assertion about theories, not advancing a theory himself. He is calling into question the practice of theorizing and the tendency to place undo trust in them. After all, the Greek world theoria derives from theoros, meaning a spectator (the root thea also gives us theater). It is a point of view. Are all points of view false? No. But they are all quite limited.
i just got back; chuang's statement is a koan... in other words, a statement that zen (or Taoist students) have to study to take a step on the way to samadhi (enlightenment)... the point in this case being that there is no "answer", but that the statement points the way to a broader understanding: namely, that logical thinking, or any thinking whatever as humans practice it, has a limited grasp of reality; that what is going on in the universe and the world around us is not dependant upon what we think; and that we only "know" what we do because of the input received through our senses. as i've said previously, what happens in the universe has nothing to do with what is going on inside our heads... it's hard to make this clear so a person can understand it, i guess... zen students spend their whole lives struggling with problems like this in order to achieve comprehension...
no, but taoism and zen have much in common and are approached in similar ways: meditation, discipline, and practice... i might add that the whole point of both practices is to free oneself from pain and suffering, mental and , in some cases, physical...
Chuang Tzu does not say that, in theory, all theories all false. He simply asserts that all theories are false. I do not see why a statement about theories must be regarded as being a theory itself.
The statement is "all theories are COMPLETELY false."
Why isn't it a theory? Are you saying it's a factual statement? If so, then please provide evidence proving that all theories are completely false, which is what he is stating.
Hi Fred, Well, the addition of the term "completely" does make the proposition doubtful, since there is probably some truth to many theories. So I would say his proposition is simply incorrect. It would be nice to know what the literal Chinese is.
yes... Chuang Tzu knows that human thought doesn't run the universe; that's the role of the laws of chemistry and physics (or the analogy thereof...)
ReplyDeleteYou, a Zen priest
Looking like a
Scarecrow
firefly hunting
has led me
to fall in the creek
natsume soseki
Mudpuddle,
ReplyDeleteSo you agree that his theory is incorrect, and that there may be theories that are not completely false, and even some that are completely true.
another way to look at this is "all theories are completely true". what's the difference?
ReplyDeleteMudpuddle,
DeleteDo you really believe there's no difference between completely false and completely true?
R.T.,
ReplyDeleteThen if I say that all theories are completely true, that also would be a fact.
R,T.,
ReplyDelete"All theories are neither true nor false until proven one way or the other; they are mere statements of possibilities."
I don't see how that is a restatement of what he said. It's far more reasonable, but it isn't what he said.
Chuckle. . .
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem with universal statements, especially of the negative ilk--they can be turned against themselves.
R.T.,
ReplyDeleteI think a better syllogism would be:
P1. All Greeks are bald
P2. Socrates is a Greek
Therefore, Socrates is bald.
Yes, sweeping generalizations are exactly that and universals are even riskier.
It seems to me that Chuang Tzu is simply making an assertion about theories, not advancing a theory himself. He is calling into question the practice of theorizing and the tendency to place undo trust in them. After all, the Greek world theoria derives from theoros, meaning a spectator (the root thea also gives us theater). It is a point of view. Are all points of view false? No. But they are all quite limited.
ReplyDeleteFrank,
DeleteWhat did he say?
How do you distinguish between a theory and an assertion?
I see his statement as a theory.
ReplyDeleteA thought experiment: suppose the statement had been attributed to Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.
How would you then see that statement?
i just got back; chuang's statement is a koan... in other words, a statement that zen (or Taoist students) have to study to take a step on the way to samadhi (enlightenment)... the point in this case being that there is no "answer", but that the statement points the way to a broader understanding: namely, that logical thinking, or any thinking whatever as humans practice it, has a limited grasp of reality; that what is going on in the universe and the world around us is not dependant upon what we think; and that we only "know" what we do because of the input received through our senses. as i've said previously, what happens in the universe has nothing to do with what is going on inside our heads... it's hard to make this clear so a person can understand it, i guess...
ReplyDeletezen students spend their whole lives struggling with problems like this in order to achieve comprehension...
Mudpuddle,
DeleteAre you saying that Chuang Tzu was a Zen Buddhist?
no, but taoism and zen have much in common and are approached in similar ways: meditation, discipline, and practice... i might add that the whole point of both practices is to free oneself from pain and suffering, mental and , in some cases, physical...
DeleteMudpuddle.
DeleteWhile both are plans to free one from suffering, I don't see how that fit with his universal statement.
i might add: it Tibet, novitiant monks sit around for hours arguing about Koans, frequently resulting in physical aggression...
ReplyDeleteMudpuddle,
DeleteChuckle. . .
Why am I not surprised?
Chuang Tzu does not say that, in theory, all theories all false. He simply asserts that all theories are false. I do not see why a statement about theories must be regarded as being a theory itself.
ReplyDeleteFrank,
DeleteThe statement is "all theories are COMPLETELY false."
Why isn't it a theory? Are you saying it's a factual statement? If so, then please provide evidence proving that all theories are completely false, which is what he is stating.
Hi Fred,
ReplyDeleteWell, the addition of the term "completely" does make the proposition doubtful, since there is probably some truth to many theories. So I would say his proposition is simply incorrect. It would be nice to know what the literal Chinese is.
Frank,
DeleteAgreed. Different translations can change the meaning of a statement, or at least the implications to be gained from that statement.